NICE-ESG-Libs Digest Fri, 25 Aug 95 Volume 1 : Issue 286
Today's Topics:
Some noise in comp.lang.eiffel
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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 20:54:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: fm@fm.rhein-main.de (Frieder Monninger)
Subject: Some noise in comp.lang.eiffel
To: NICE-ESG-Libs@atlanta.twr.com
I read some noise:
From: "Brian Strelioff"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: Re: Eiffel only standardised OO language?
Date: 24 Aug 1995 00:40:16 GMT
Organization: BKS Systems, Inc.
What "published language standard" covers recursive/nested
assertions, attachment if creation fails, once persistence,
order of assertion checking, assertions during evaluation of
old operands, GENERAL generic, manifest constant overflow,
manifest constant widening, out/tagged_out format, STORABLE
format, BIT padding, repeated class invariant inheritance,
minimal number of generics, ...? The ELS95 definitions for
GENERAL makes it, and therefore the entire ELS95, unusable
and the non-trivial classes (ARRAY, STRING, STD_FILES, FILE)
are so far from your recommended "Principles of Class
Interface Design" that they too are basicly inadequate
for use as a "standard" as far as compiler development
or software design. (Indeed ELS95 appears to be far enough
away from QSRES standards that even there it would be
rejected).
fm: .. does anybody understand this ... ?
As to "multiple vendor support", while each vendor does
appear to support dome dialect/interpretation of something,
is there sufficient commonality to provide even a de facto
interoperablility standard? I think not, nor do I see
the situation changing in the foreseeable future.
While I look forward to the next draft of ETR, given that
at least two years have elapsed since the first draft,
and that from a quick scan of various drafts very little
progress (if any) was made, I am not optimistic that a
language standard will be defined this millenium, let alone
implemented and available from multiple vendors.
fm: various drafts - ..
Similarly, ELS95 has enough paradoxes that, given that
the deadline for ELS96 final proposals is less then a
week away, I see little hope for definition of a valid
xxxxxxxxx
fm: I am not awary of this - please tell me that this is nonsense ....
library standard before ELS98, with again little chance
of multiple vendors providing interoperable compliant
implementations this millenium.
While I certainly look forward to Eiffel standardization,
to date there is little evidence that it will ever happen
to the appropriate interoperability level required from a
standard.
PS: Will the final proposals for ELS96 be available soon?
I am more then willing to review ETR/ELS again and focus
on providing more detailed explanations and priorities
for areas that need work (as requested by several people),
but I would prefer to start with more current proposals
(if any exist). With the final proposal submission
deadline of 1 September, yet only one month before the
approval deadline, I think the review should start as
soon as possible.
fm: does anybody knows something about this gentlemen? I read
some of his "comments" about the elks in comp.lang.eiffel. I think
someone who can produce long english sentences (German is famous
for long sentences, I know) should try to convince him to
- either be quiet
- join Nice and work
I see no sense to discuss Nice proposals in comp.lang.eiffel -
maybe other proposals, but Nice should keep things secret.
Maybe it should be possible to "cut" some people from the digests.
Back to the deadline: I agree that there must be some deadline - but
if we follow the grape harvest (I hope you understand) in California
we still have plenty time for vintage 95 (Bertrand, do you know
more ?).
--
Frieder Monninger fm@fm.rhein-main.de
35619 Braunfels-Altenkirchen ++ 49 6472 1449
Germany http://www.rhein-main.de/people/frieder/fm.htm
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